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RG500 Buyer's Guide
Every now and then someone asks about advice on an RG purchase. Last time around, I simply saved all the responses and am reposting them here:
Question: What advice do current RG owners have for someone looking at a used RG500?
Here’s what we got:
Hi Mike-
- You can buy a service manual HERE
I have to say, I'm more of a "take one bike and fool with it" sort, than a good evaluator of used bikes. So for starters, I am really horrible at determining what a bike is worth. But mechanically...
The cosmetic stuff, like you say, you can determine what is OK and what needs fixing or replacing. So I won't worry about that.
Mechanically- I Guess if I were buying used, the big questions for me would be:
how many miles on the top end and cranks? never been rebuilt @ 29,000 km? It's a middle-aged motor. You're not going to start putting hop up stuff on there and expect a lot, a two stroke with 18,000 miles is not a spring chicken. It'll probably run fine, but I wouldn't plan on flogging it @ 11,000 rpm constantly.
1) what shape is the gearbox in? no way to verify without taking it apart. If it shifts fine and doesn't jump out of gear or 'skip' under power, that's about all I could tell from the outside. Even if you buy it, I would take the gerarbox out and see what shape all the dogs are in. This is one item that can kill the bike if it fails. Just to be safe, its a pain but you need to know what shape it is in after you buy it.
2) what shape is the engine in? one cylinder smoking more or less may not tell you anything about the pistons and rings, it just means oil's collected somewhere. If they're OK with it, I'd take a compression test. are all four cylinders similar? Do you have a good compression gauge? is one cylinder substantially lower than the others? a stock - really fresh- RG gets about 125-130 psi on my gauge. If you see 100psi, the motor is pretty tired and you will probably need rings or possibly rings/ pistons soon.
can you remove the magneto cover? grab the magneto and try to rotate it CW and CCW. do you find slack and slop on the shaft? It should feel quite tight, with no slack or freeplay. freeplay means wear on the teeth of the shaft. not great. Can be fixed, but again, an indication of a hard life.
Like so
SOME gammas have cracked in the swingarm pivot area. Look behind the webbed, cast areas on the frame by the swingarm pivot. See if you see anything.
I'm not trying to scare you off, this is very rare, just trying to think of things that will hard to fix!!
The other stuff- Powervalve motor can get old/tired/ stop working. one ride should tell you if it is working OK. or, rev the motor briefly above 8500, you should see the powervalves cycle back and forth.
IF I bought a 20-year-old Gamma, I guess my main hope is that all the pieces are there. I would plan on going over it thoroughly in any case.
The fact that it;s pretty stock is good, right!
The gauge foam always breaks down. You could always cut a new piece if you were inclined, or order one still, I think.
It may simply be that the price of admission is simply 5 or 6000 these days. I would get familiar with the bike after you buy one- really, go ahead and ride it but count on taking at all apart and checking everything out. pull the barrels off- then you can check piston clearance, and rod side-play. so you'll KNOW what you have. Put in fresh rings, at the very least. pull the trans for inspection. look for wear on the dogs, etc.
put on new spark plug caps- they break down with age. clean the carbs thoroughly. etc. just do the whole bit.
I'm really no help at all, am I !!!
Randy
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Kick the bike over smartly WITHOUT turning on
ignition. Listen carefully. If you hear any clanking
or clatter at all then your piston skirts have
collapsed due to wear and you have a top end job in
your very near future. You can also clearly hear this
if you kick it over quite slowly and push the
kickstart down until you feel resistance near TDC then
kick it through pretty slowly. You'll hear a distinct
clank of skirt hitting cylinder wall. Top end job is
in your immediate future.
Pull the #3 power valve (easy to do) and examine it
for deposits, gumming, etc.
Look at the shift shaft, where it goes into the
crankcase. Often a bike that's been dropped has the
support boss for this shaft cracked or broken. It can
be repaired (mine had this happen) but it's an
important support for the shaft.
Make sure the clutch adjuster on the clutch cover
easily screws up and down. It often can get stripped.
Unscrew the oil inspection bolt in the clutch cover
with the bike on the sidestand then bring the bike up
to vertical. If no oil comes out you are low on trans
oil and that's a flag. Low oil level can result in
primary gears getting messed up. That happened to my
bike.
If the bike has stock coils carefully check the wires.
They connect to the coils by getting pushed onto
spikes, and the coil wire coil corrodes resulting in
poor ignition. This might be tough as the tank has to
come off.
-Scott Baxter
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REALLY examine the inside of the tank for rust.
--- Paul Gillard wrote:
When buying there are a few known areas to check and most have a ready solution.
1. Check the gearbox operation. A test ride will reveal whether it is jumping out of gear or not so give it a serious thrash. 2nd gear is the problem and upon riding you will notice a massive 'clunk' when changing up or down between 1st and 2nd. This is normal but obviously jumping out of gear is not. If it dosen't miss any changes and holds all the gears then its probably OK but heard of 500's going bang with no warning so no guarantees. Even around a track I avoid using 1st.
2. The float valves in the carbs are crap. Basically they function to stop the flow of fuel into the carb just like the bog and might have worked when new but unless replaced are the reason for fuel dribbling out onto your belly pan or garage floor. No sweat, plenty of choice on the web to replace and will allow an upgrade in size to aid fuel flow .
3. The rotary valve cover lining is prone to lifting. One of my bikes had 3 of the 4 coming away from the alloy but the higher mileage bike was sweet so you just have to check. Still available from Suzuki as are most parts due to the continued popularity but also plenty of choice on line. If they come away and get caught in the spinning valves it can make a large mess.
4. The check valves that restrict the oil flow to the carbs to prevent oil gathering in the carbs (2psi ball and spring) and forward when the pump is inactive (ie the motor is off) are also crap. You can tell they are stuffed from a puddle of fresh two stroke forming below your rotary valves on the sidestand side of the bike only. This is because the other sides leaking oil finds its way into your crackcases and takes quite a long time to burn off when riding after not using it for a while. Again an easy fix for the mildly mechanically minded. the RG500 website now has these available and there are some different ideas around for this from the RG500 forum (gammalist) There was so much oil inside the motor when I bought my last 400 it would'nt rev over 7000 and the owner thought it was stuffed so I got it cheap. I feel so dirty.
5. All of my bikes except my 5000km 400cc have a grinding noise that disappears once you engage the clutch. Not sure this means anything and dosen't seem to affect performance or indicate anything more serious so try not to be alarmed. Not there when the motor is cold.
I think that whatever the condition there seems to be some very good advice for this motor and what to do. Nothing seems to irretrievable given time and money with the only serious concern being the gearbox
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I worked up one with help from some guys on line 5 years ago, but both the computers I had it on are long gone.
I remember we started with the obvious stuff:
1. Gearbox upgrade
2. Mileage, what bore was it on
3. Pipes (if stock and want to upgrade, a lot of money here)
4. Lance or Dent Air Filters
5. The good carb float valves (can't remember, I'm tired)
6. Wheels (if stock and want to upgrade, a lot of money here)
7. Suspension: After market shock
8. Forks/brakes: Reworked or replaced
9. Coils: Hopefully Accel or something to improve starting and reduce fouling
10. Fairing, Seat, Tank, etc
Then:
1. Carbs
2. RV's
3. Porting
4 Heads
5. Slotted pickup or Mark's to advance spark or Digital Igniton
What am I missing? Priorities should be reliability, modernization, then all the trick stuff.
Tim
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- check the swingarm from the bottom , if there are any signs of clefts near the fitted wheel
- while cleaning carbs, don't put high pressure into the small oil tube or it will leake for ever with no chance of a replacement
- don't rise first gear into red and change gear 1 to 2 on a crappy road, your gearbox will crack
- don't install your chain to hard, would support a broken gearbox
- don't run the Gamma on long straights with WOT before a controlled carb set-up
- fuel tap is leaking since coming out of factory ... change to Groose-valves or change often the needle valves and/or install gas-tube quick connectors, everytime, your engine will stand for more then a few hours, otherwise you crankhousing will be flooded and damage sealings, conrods and oistons ....
- control the oilpump set-up with the manual, running well in stock set-up (using 2T fullysynth. oil)
- check your inner surface of your outer intake rotation valves, if there are any detached areas
- check, if the air ventil of your tank is working proper, otherwise you'll run lean on long runs and blow the engine
- if your battery will ever be empty, the exhaust valves will not work any more and you'll search for high rpm power
- changing transmission oil protects more from a draging clutch, then you can think, with a nonaftermarket transmission you should put ~50-100ml more in the transmission then said in the manual
- control the exhaust valves set-up with the manual before doing the carb set-up
- check from time to time, if enough oil i transmission, as the oil can be succed through the crank seals ... bown transmission will appear ...
- fore a long distance run and a more stable road performance, use a more soft suspension and fork setup, top speed will be more possible then with a hard setup, which I can recommend for nice cornering
- don't worry, when you have to switch your fuel tap to reserve after around 130-160km driven :-)
- never paint original bodywork or tank, as they are very rare, aftermarket fairings are available at ebay sometimes for 150Euros
- if you need more information join the international RG500Gamma mailiglist and you'll get help inbetween a few minutes or max. 24 hours
http://edj.net/2stroke/rg/gammalist.html
Have fun and send picture charly@rg500.info to be shown on my homepage www.rg500.info
Cheers
Carsten (Aachen - Germany)
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Can any Suzuki shop work on it? NO, many will refuse
Where can I get parts, same Suzuki shop? If you have a part number from the microfiche, you can ask their parts dept. Many parts must come from Canada, etc.
Is it faster than a GSX-R? Stock RGs may put out 65-80 HP completely stock (at the wheel) and weigh ~ 400 lbs with a full tank. About 365 lbs with an empty tank. So, it can be pretty quick. With basic tuning, pipes etc it may make 90-100HP at the wheel. Highly modified Gammas can make 120-130 net HP and weigh as little as 300 lbs with no fuel. So, yes, it can become very fast.
What do I need to look out for most when buying a
bike? See warnings above. The transmission, if weak, has probably already broken and been fixed!
Can I race this bike? Can you afford to fix it when it breaks? Anything can be raced.
How can I make it go faster? get on the internet and start looking! join the RG500 mailing list.
What are common maintenance intervals? it is like any other two stroke.
What is the best 2 stroke oil to use? You will get 100 different answers.
What are the best tires to use? Ask on the mailing list or FB
What is the most likely thing to break on this bike? Anything like any other two stroke. Gamma-specific: the transmission. Fuel floats tend to get leaky. beware if a cylinder seizes and pieces get into the disc valve, it can jam up like toilet paper and damage the disc cover and valve. lining on inside of RV cover can get loose and slip or become ingested. The clutch tends to drag annoyingly if not in tip-top shape. Be aware that a dragging clutch will make conditions harder for your transmission.
What Web sites can help me learn more about the gamma? Google!
Why did Suzuki make this bike? They wanted to punish decent people into developing a lifelong, bank-breaking obsession for a bike that would never be updated by the factory. 8-)
What is a 'gray' bike? semi-legal imported vehicle
How much power should my bike make? 65-75 HP stock. 75-90 with fresh engine, good pipes, opened-up air filter system etc.
What do I need to do differently when riding a gamma than any other bike? Be gentle with the gearbox. If it begins to skip out of gear, remove for inspection and repair. be gentle on 1-2 shift. Are you getting the idea!!
How can I make it handle better? popular mods are : wheel swap to newer sizes, swingarm bracing or swap, fork swap, shock upgrade
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He should check out if the crossmember on the left side under the seat has a crack. It starts on the back side at the top joint. Seen this on several
bikes always in the same spot.
BR
Tor
Buyer's Guide